Let’s Get the Party Started – 10 Things to Know as You Relaunch the Ship [Show]

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Gretchen Roe: 00:00:04.794
Hello, everyone. Welcome to 2024. This is Gretchen Roe for The Demme Learning Show, and I am absolutely delighted to welcome my colleague and friend, Sue Wachter, today. We’re going to talk about getting your party started again. And sometimes that can be a very difficult thing to do. In fact, Sue and I just came out of a collaborative meeting where several of us were talking about how if we haven’t started something on the 1st or 2nd of January, then we kind of look at it differently and we’re like, “Oh, maybe I’ll do that next year.” And so we want to encourage you not to be next year. We want to encourage you to be right now. And we want to change your frame of thinking in the next hour. And nobody can do that better than Sue. So I’m going to let her introduce herself. Sue, no pressure.

Sue Wachter: 00:00:59.643
Yeah, hi, I’m Sue Wachter. And I’ll just say up front, I did not homeschool my kids. Everything I know about homeschooling and believe in is from spending time over the last 30 years trying to figure things out with homeschool moms. And you guys are the best.

Gretchen Roe: 00:01:22.568
Sue and I are here because this is something that families ask us to talk about. And it’s talking about getting the ship relaunched, getting the party started again, getting your head back in the game. And you know what? It’s hard to motivate your children, but sometimes it’s harder to motivate yourself. So that’s really what we’re going to talk about today. And Sue, I think you had a terrific comment in our notes about resolving to improve one thing instead of all things. So can you talk a little bit about why that’s important?

Sue Wachter: 00:01:58.378
The reason it’s important, we always think– and this helps when you’re teaching too. When I’m teaching, I have my mindset that if my student comes away with one new idea that they really grasp, that’s what success looks like, not that every word that I say because in this situation, just like in teaching, I’m scatter gunning you. And in this situation that we’re talking right now, you’re going to get scatter gunned with tons of thoughts and ideas because we don’t know who everybody is. So we just kind of have to do everything. That doesn’t mean we are expecting everything. One thing, one takeaway, it’s not that you might not say, oh, that’s a good idea, but one that you really can hang on to and go with. That’s really important to not just get overwhelmed.

Gretchen Roe: 00:02:52.032
I think it’s also important because at this point in time, not only are you trying to get your students refocused, but you’re trying to get yourself refocused as well. And if you took even a week off at Christmas, sometimes it’s difficult to step back into that again and refocus your attention. I know that for me personally, New Year’s resolutions never worked out really well for me because I’m very much a recovering perfectionist. And if I couldn’t do that resolution just the way I wanted to, then I was disappointed in myself. And so what we would like to do instead is find ways for you to celebrate that you are walking back into the second semester of academics with your students and that you’re doing that with a fair degree of joy. So Sue, can we talk about evaluating kind of the past a little bit? And we talked about this yesterday. Keeping the thought that because we took a break, we’re now behind out of our conversation or out of our mindset, if you will.

Sue Wachter: 00:04:07.837
So I’ll be honest, when I’m on the phone with a parent and they are talking about the behind thing, it’s like a red flag for me to say, “Okay, my number one thing is to help this parent not feel behind.” Because usually, and it’s true, it’s not like I’m making it up. In the middle of the conversation, I’m seeing that they aren’t really behind. There’s a lot of good things going on, and it kind of almost becomes a comparison thing where you’re– think you’re behind because somebody else’s kid or they should be doing something else. Whereas it’s more important to solidify the student. That’s usually where I’m going for. And then also to help the parent understand that they’re doing a great job. I mean, I don’t think I ever come off the phone saying, “Oh my gosh, she’s doing a horrible job.” I just am looking for those things. If I sat down with each one of you, I would be able to listen to your story and just see so many good things going on. But a lot of times, especially that comparison thing, you get concerned that they’re going to be behind. And in hindsight, I don’t think I ever worried about that. See, so I don’t can’t identify with that. I just always went with where they were going and encouraged them, which–

Gretchen Roe: 00:05:45.347
But you said something to me several years ago. In fact, you and I were together in Fort Worth walking along the river. So this was probably eight or nine years ago. You said that you just trusted that everything would work toward your children’s best. And I think that that is an absolutely wonderful attitude. And if you’re a mom or a dad listening to us having this conversation today, or you’re reviewing this conversation at some later point in time, and you don’t have that attitude, maybe that’s a New Year’s resolution is to trust that it would work out for the best.

Sue Wachter: 00:06:22.926
Yeah, yeah. And it did. And then you say, “Well, yeah, that worked out for you, but not me.” But there’s all these what-ifs out there, knowing it’ll work out for the best. And it was funny because the other night I was cleaning out the files because that’s part of my resolution. And I ran across once again all the little papers and the notes from the kids growing up. And I was just really affirm again. First of all, that I wasn’t in it alone. There were notes from other people who had encounters with my children that I’d saved. So even though if you’re not a saver, save those little notes and those little, “I’m mad at you, Mom.” As they’re in the room in trouble, slip the note under the door. Oh my gosh, they’re just precious. And also I will say I ran across one where my daughter was mad at me and I thought, “Oh my gosh, I finally get after. 20 years what she was talking about.” So I had to apologize to her the next day and she’s 40, you know what I mean? So it’s a little off track, but it just seemed funny that I was going to be doing this today. And then I had all those little papers with all those little notes, and.

Gretchen Roe: 00:07:36.918
I saw this one thing this spring, and I’ll show you these. I have these really wildly creatively colored Post-it notes here on my desk. And this suggestion was, instead of keeping a journal where you might not think you’re doing it right, so then you stop doing it at all, the author of this particular suggestion had said take a Post-it note and when something cool or something good or beneficial happens, write it down on the Post-it note and then throw that in a mason jar. And then at the end of the year or somewhere along the road when you need encouragement, you’ve got a whole jar full of those little encouraging notes. And I think that’s such a great idea. It’s really simple and it doesn’t take a long time.

Sue Wachter: 00:08:29.414
Yeah. And then I would include the kids in on it too because that would be really special. And then also if they do an angry note, I mean, you may be more ready to have that conversation then than in the moment. Just like I experienced four years later, I’m ready to have that conversation and resolve it. I didn’t even know it was unresolved. But yeah, that’s a really good idea, Gretchen, have the note because when I do the file, it’s just a big pile of stuff which I like a mess. So I mean, not everybody likes a mess.

Gretchen Roe: 00:09:05.882
Well, part of the reason I invited you to do this with me today is because you call yourself the glitter grandma. So I want to talk a little bit because a lot of us are coming out of the holidays. Our houses are wrecked. There’s still Christmas celebration laying around in piles in the corner. And as an artist, I think you find encouragement in that. And you say, go ahead and do the art project anyway. So can you help us think our way through that mindset? Because I think that’s a great attitudinal shift for us.

Sue Wachter: 00:09:40.152
It is but I totally understand because my own children are neat freaks. And I don’t know where that came from but it’s harder– it’s easy for me to say because I like a little chaos and I don’t need everything all in one place so I’m not really sure. That would be an interesting sit-down and talk about how does that work when you do like everything in order and–

Gretchen Roe: 00:10:10.827
Well, I am a neat– and I’m the neat and tidy one in my family and I didn’t marry someone who is that way nor did I give birth to one of my six children who are that way. So I have to kind of balance the, what’s the minimum I need to be happy with how much chaos can I put up with. And maybe if you haven’t thought about that as a parent stepping back into your home academic year or even your regular academic year with a student who’s not homeschooled, we have more and more families who are homeschooling a child because of a certain set of needs. And then another child is going to a public or a private school. So if you’re that kind of a blended family, it might be time to sit down and kind of assess how much chaos can you put up with. How much is too much? Where’s your bottom line? And then figure out how to do that. One of the things, Sue, that you said when we talked about this is maybe it would be fun to plan a little bit for an art project, stepping back into this. An art project that might help kids begin to get focused again. What are some suggestions you might have for that?

Sue Wachter: 00:11:27.313
Well, what I like to suggest is the whole idea of having the project not be a sit-down one and done. That’s where I find with children, especially, they get in this mindset that if you’re going to paint something, you sit down, you get it done. And what happens is then they trash it in the end because they just want it over. But learning to plan it out like maybe it could be where first you start out with photography. Let’s go find some weird things out there. So when I do photography with kids, I like it to be don’t just take the picture of the house and the people. Find the unusual. Find the unnoticed because especially, and I think this is in any subject., learning to see beyond the obvious is one of the most valuable things you can do. And it’s a wonderful way to live as well because you’re never bored because you’re sitting there and you go, “Okay, let’s look around. What’s unusual here?” So maybe go out and do photography first to get some photo references and then maybe say, “Okay, well, now let’s get it on the phone and let’s do some cropping. Let’s find out which way looks better.” So that again, they realize that in art and in all things, you don’t just say, well, this is it. This is how we’re going to do it. What are my options? Does this look better? Does that look better? Again, that helps with the perfectionism, which is a really, really, really hard thing to overcome a lot of times. And so then maybe take it to the next step. Okay, so what media would work best? Is it going to be watercolor? Then maybe sketch out a rough sketch. Like you have two minutes to sketch it out, not a perfect sketch. And all those things, getting away from the perfect is what’s going to help your artist and your student, anyway. That is so valuable. So the whole lesson here in this is a good project takes time and it’s in phases and we don’t spend a ton of time. We’re just going to spend a few minutes and we’re going to get this piece and then this piece and then this piece and we build on that. And then looking for and then maybe especially if you’re not good at the topic, then you do it along with them and you exhibit and show them how to not be good at something. Oh, that’s so important. That’s so important. Learning how to not be that good at it and evaluate what you need to learn and to persevere. All that stuff is so much more important than– you know, the typical thinking back again is that you give a lesson, they take everything and you say and they do it all right. And that’s not reality.

Gretchen Roe: 00:14:26.347
No.

Sue Wachter: 00:14:26.774
Even though somewhere along the line, we’ve picked that up that if you’re really smart, you can do that. The really smart people figure out that it’s a process and they allow the process.

Gretchen Roe: 00:14:39.683
I love that, that the really smart people figure out that it’s a process and it’s okay to test, guess, adjust, reaffirm. All of those things are important, particularly as you stack back into academics. So one of the things that we talked about as well is you can’t jump into the deep end of the pool and expect to swim like an Olympic swimmer. So instead of stepping back into all your academics at once, step back into the important stuff.

Sue Wachter: 00:15:08.796
Right.

Gretchen Roe: 00:15:08.796
So can you talk a little bit about that?

Sue Wachter: 00:15:11.057
Yes. So just get your core things going or and then maybe throw in the– say, well what what totally that seems unimportant thing do we want to work on too? So don’t have it just be be those things. But the core things that in the end it’s not really the core things because if you think about it, math and science, it’s all connected to all those extra things. Does that make sense?

Gretchen Roe: 00:15:39.966
Yes. So if you’ve taken a break from math, let’s say you’re like me and back in my home school days, we did not really do school between Thanksgiving and this week of January. What would the things that you were, if you were talking to a parent who was like me and took that long break, what are the things you would tell them to begin with first when they step back in mathematically?

Sue Wachter: 00:16:10.102
Well, if you do kind of a review pages– and I avoid the look of a test. That’s why even for math – you could contact me – I’ve developed little check-ins, is what I call them that are just short little spurts each day that are really looking and observing for where’s the struggle? Where is there a hole? And so doing something like that– because the test is a whole ‘nother thing because now we got anxiety, and we got all kinds of things in here. But this is just, “Okay. We’re going to do a warm up.” We’re just going to get back into the groove and then don’t leave the room, stay there and observe the behavior, see where any struggle is. That’s going to tell you where there are any gaps. And a lot of times with math, gaps are a big issue. And a lot of times you just keep trudging forward and saying, “It’ll all come out.” But if we can identify a gap and find an easy way to build those gaps up, to me, that’s important because I’ve seen this whole idea of being behind. I’ve seen students who fill in gaps and all of a sudden they’re escalating. The child that was struggling and you felt like they were being behind, now they have the gaps filled. And it’s a game changer. And so many times I’ve had parents come back to me and not only say it’s a game changer in their skill, but their attitude about math has changed because now they feel confident because there were missing pieces. So finding the missing pieces is the number one thing I work with with parents.

Gretchen Roe: 00:17:53.085
So I know that– I know what you mean when you say observe the behaviors, but can you illustrate for parents the things you want them to look for?

Sue Wachter: 00:18:04.000
So, for example, so if you have a a fifth grader, I just would give them one long division problem. That’s going to tell you almost everything because you’re using all the operations. And so as you’re observing – I mean, you’re casually observing – you’re looking for, do they pause and have to– and then they feel like to get lost? Do you see frustration? Do you see anything? And then if you can, observe where they’re at in the process when they do that. Are they at the division part? Are they at the knowing what the next step is, that type of thing. Another one is fractions because fractions are real simple formulas. So what happens is they’re doing the fraction work and say, “So, mom, remind me real quick how do you add a fraction?” And you tell them the little formula and they get the work done. So they catch the idea that they don’t have to remember the formula.

Gretchen Roe: 00:19:06.976
Because you’re going to do it for them, right?

Sue Wachter: 00:19:08.679
“I’ll just ask mom a quick question. It’s a quick formula. And I know it’s a quick formula, so she’ll tell me and I’ll get my work done.” So those are the kind of things that often, especially if you’re busy, you’re just looking at, “Did they get the work done? How many did they get right? How many did they get that wrong?” And that’s important. And then also, especially with boys, I find that– so they like to do the work in their head and they go, “Oh my goodness,” to get them to write out the problems, forget it. I fight them all the time. They do it all in their head, which– that’s a great skill to be developing, but you still need to know what they’re doing in their head to make sure they’re not picking up a bad habit that’s going to cause a problem later. So then I always recommend the, “Let’s make a deal.” “Okay. Fine. You you can do it in your head, but these problems here I want you to do on the paper.” And again, observing what’s their behavior as they go through it. Not maybe the whole thing, but just kind of that behavior thing is a big– you can see the struggle happening, because they’ll exhibit it.

Gretchen Roe: 00:20:21.537
So if you get a long division problem that has 15 tests or guesses around the circle of that division problem, you know something’s going on here, so it would be good for you to step back in. And you said something about, “Just get the work done. You got most of them right.” Lisa, our colleague, talks about if you’re getting the same ones wrong all the time, then that’s a process problem. So at this time of year, as a parent, it would be really important for you to pay attention in an affirmative way to, what’s wrong? What are they getting wrong? Maybe it’s something back in October that they didn’t get a firm grasp on, and now they’re trying to apply it in January and they’re struggling with that. And that only happens if you as the parent are coming alongside them and being a careful observer of how they’re doing.

Sue Wachter: 00:21:14.917
So with that long division problem, you say, “You have to show your work,” and the showing the work is going to tell you a lot, too. A lot of times I’ll send these warm-up assessments to parents and they say, “Well, they missed five.” That doesn’t tell me anything. Send me the piece of paper that they did it on. And a lot of times I’ll say, “They know what they’re doing. I can tell. Here, it appears that maybe this is the spot.” So make sure that it’s not just they got so many a certain percentage right or wrong. What’s happening is what you want to know. And then even if they get them all wrong, but they show behaviors that they’re just being careless or doing it too fast or something like that. Because in the end, it’s all about learning. It’s not all about, “Okay, they got a C and a B and a D.”

Gretchen Roe: 00:22:13.029
Right. I never had a– I never had a college that any one of my six kids applied to ask me to show the paperwork of what the kids completed. What they wanted to know was what my students knew and how well prepared they were for the rigors of a college class, which I think makes a tremendous amount of difference for us as parents if we can keep that mindset. It’s not about how much paper your student produces, but how much do they really understand? So I know you do a terrific job of coaching parents to be prepared before their students step into something new. In other words, looking ahead and understanding what their students are about ready to learn. Can you talk a little bit about a mom, particularly in the math world, who has multiple kids in different levels? How would she be prepared now that she’s taken a break and she has to step back in? Should she spend a day or so refamiliarizing herself with where her kids were before there was a break?

Sue Wachter: 00:23:19.302
You might. I mean, I’m going to probably go a different direction than you were thinking. And then I want to hear what you have to say, because I’m also of a different mindset. I would probably sit down, actually bring the child in and say, “Okay, so where are we?” One of the big mistakes we make, which I realized when I was tutoring once, is we appear like we have it all together. And so I found that it was helpful for the student to see, “Okay, I’ve had a break. Let’s sit down. Where are we with all this?” That would be more my approach. I might do a little studying ahead if it was something new. But from that experience. I learned to not give the impression that I’ve got it all together, and I know everything.

Gretchen Roe: 00:24:10.482
And why was that valuable to you?

Sue Wachter: 00:24:13.961
Pardon?

Gretchen Roe: 00:24:14.747
Why was that valuable to you?

Sue Wachter: 00:24:16.886
Because my student was under a lot of pressure to perform and make me happy. That’s what I figured out then. And so it was fascinating because she goes, “Why is it that you know everything?” And it’s like, “Oh my goodness, I’m giving the wrong impression here.” So I wanted her to see that learning for me is a process too. Like in my art classes, I don’t have to pretend to make mistakes in front of my students. They happen. I don’t walk in and say, “Okay. I know everything. Just do what I say. And you’ll be amazing.” It’s like learning is an exciting process. And I like to share that with my students. So I know that wasn’t what you were thinking, but I’d love to [crosstalk].

Gretchen Roe: 00:25:07.117
No, actually, I think that is– the ability to sit down and collaborate as opposed to dictate is a huge game changer for so many kids, particularly when they don’t really want to pick up the reins and run with them in the first place.

Sue Wachter: 00:25:22.551
So a lot of times I’m talking about parents and usually in the end of our conversation, there’s options. It’s not like, “Okay. Go do this.” It’s like, “Okay. This could work. This could work. This could work.” And then I’ll say, “So what do you think your student would prefer?” And they go, “What?” I’ve seen that many time like, “What? What my student would prefer?” I said, “Yeah, the thing is, if you can get buy in where they feel like–” I mean, they don’t get the option of my student would just not do math. I mean, we’re going to do math anyway. But what do you think would work better? If you have a student that as soon as they sit down to math, it’s just drudgery. Maybe there’s too many problems on the page. Do we need to do a lot of problems? And the nice thing is if you do every other one or make a deal that do every other one, then you’ve got extras if they have a little trouble. Or if they like to do it in their head and say, “Okay, you can do them in your head. I want you to do one of them, not in your head. But if you miss it, the problem, then you have to redo it on paper where I can see it.” So work out strategies that help them learn not only the subject but how they learn best and sometimes having them be creative.

Sue Wachter: 00:26:48.010
When they get to college, and they go, “Oh, I have to do this. Okay. I know that I– I know my behaviors.” Knowing your behaviors is important, “Even in my art, I know my behaviors. My behaviors aren’t perfection. And I know that I have trouble at this phase of my art. So I know that I have to pay more attention here because I’m going to go back into my old habits.” But helping them learn, “How do I learn best?” And that might just feel real overwhelming. I’m sorry. I mean, I’ve developed this over time, so don’t think you’re going to say, “Okay. I’m going to try to do this.” It’s going to take time for you as well. And you can always call me and say, “Okay. I saw the show. And you talked about that. This is my situation.” And I might not have all the answers. But I might have some ideas. And I might just have some encouragement that you’re doing great. Sometimes parents call and they think they’re failing, and they’re not. They’re just not failing. It’s learning, learning all over the place, not just them, but you.

Gretchen Roe: 00:27:58.328
One of the things that we talked about is routines and the success that might be born of routine. And since you and I are not great routine people, we like the adventure of a different something every day. Can we maybe talk about how establishing routines is also a collaborative effort? I’ve seen you have conversations with parents about this when we have stood next to each other at conventions and talking about engaging the student in figuring out the routine.

Sue Wachter: 00:28:32.930
Good ideas. What are some ideas? And throw in some crazy ideas. That just makes it more fun and lightens up the room. So let’s just talk about crazy ideas. There’s no limits. What if and what if and what if? They don’t get everything their way, either, because you’re part of the– you’re part of the equation. Everything doesn’t have to be about what how they want it. Just like everything doesn’t need to be about what how you want it. The whole thing is, is to learn how they learn. When they leave home, you want them to not need you to learn anymore.

Gretchen Roe: 00:29:08.024
So then I want to pause here and I want to step back. You were talking about the student who has to say to their parent, “Now tell me how I add unlike fractions together?” And the parent has to repeat that. In that instance, if we’re teaching our student how to learn, would it be valuable to say, “Well, why don’t you explain to me how that works?”

Sue Wachter: 00:29:32.454
That’s true. “What do you know?” Yes, because you knowing what they know and how they would explain it is going to help you know where the problem is.

Gretchen Roe: 00:29:41.179
Right. Exactly.

Sue Wachter: 00:29:42.509
And then get excited about it. It’s like, “Oh, I get it now. This is where–.” It’s not like, “I told you that 70 times.” No. “Oh, this is so good.” Figuring out what we don’t know is so valuable. Even if you’re in your head, you’re going, “Are you kidding me?”

Gretchen Roe: 00:30:02.208
I think every parent has that moment where an adult says something to their student and their student is like, “Did you know that Mrs. Wachter said, blah, blah, blah?” And you’re like, “Yeah, I’ve said it about 100 times to you.” But it’s just different when they hear it from another adult. It makes a difference. Can we talk about being kind to yourself? We have some really good questions, and I want to get our attention on those questions. But one of the things that I think I want to talk about before we step into those questions is not having unreasonable expectations of the parent as they step back into the academic process.

Sue Wachter: 00:30:46.716
I spent many years trying to be the perfect parent, but it’s just– there’s no such thing. You’re going to need to be kind to yourself and give yourself breaks to do something away from those kids. I mean, as much as I love my kids, and I was never the mom, even though my– I was never the mom that couldn’t wait for school to start. I loved having my kids home. But I needed a break. I needed my own brain food to be going and my own learning on the side and relationship-building and things outside of wrapped up. There’s a lot. When you’re raising kids, it’s– there’s a lot and you need to refuel somehow. So I always did it with a job, which– I always had a part-time job or something and that was my getaway. But make sure that you’re– get involved with something that is– you just can walk away and forget. To me now, it’s teaching and the beauty of it is– I teach the paint nights. And so the people, you can tell, they’ll say to me all the time, “Oh it was just so nice to have two hours to get away from life. A little vacation. And they’re just rejuvenated. I’m rejuvenated just being with them and again, get away from life. And not that life is horrible but even a good life is exhausting.

Gretchen Roe: 00:32:21.029
Right. That’s a very true statement. And one of the things that we did back in the day when I had six kids sitting around a table was to be able to say, “Tell me the best thing that happened to you today.” And so to be able to teach my kids to frame their day in the context of a positive experience. Now, was I always successful at that? No, because there were days when my husband would walk through the front door and I would give him a laundry list of everything that had not gone well that day. And so then maybe you have to bat a little bit of cleanup as far as that’s concerned. But I think the important thing here is to recognize that if you can give yourself a little bit of grace as you step back into getting the second semester started, then your kids will be able to find a little bit of grace for themselves. Sue, you and I have talked about this for years and years. And we keep laughing that between the two of us, there’s a book. Perfectionists aren’t born, they’re made. And so being able to uncork even the smallest amount of perfectionism from our children should be seen by us as a huge victory.

Sue Wachter: 00:33:41.172
Right. Yeah. And I think that’s why I did get into art because I’ve never– and some people get into art and perfectionism causes all kinds of problems. But it was the one area of life that I could just express myself and learn from my mistakes and laugh at my mistakes and love my mistakes. If I pan the camera around here, you would see some very interesting pieces that were part of that process. And I think there was something about that at the beginning I told myself to just treasure where you’re at. And that’s why I love it so much because I treasure where I’m at. Not that I don’t throw some away, but treasure where you’re at. People say, well, how long does it take to become a master watercolor? It’s like, I hope I never find out. Oh my goodness, to me, that’s part of the joy is having that place where I I’m obviously not perfect.

Gretchen Roe: 00:34:47.020
And just learning, continuing to learn, which, are very wise words for our parents who are listening to us today and trying to figure out, okay, how do I do this with my kids? Teaching them that there is no such thing as perfection. I don’t know who the motivational speaker is who says fail is the first attempt at learning. I think the first time I heard that, it was Mel Robbins who said that. Recognizing that if you can reframe failures as an opportunity to learn something about yourself makes an enormous amount of difference. So if parents can step into this new season of January, February, March and recognize that they’re learning things about themselves, about their students as they progress, it makes a tremendous amount of difference.

Sue Wachter: 00:35:34.669
Having said that, I want to make sure you know I’m not good at that in every subject. I still have areas where the perfectionist comes in. So I don’t want you to say that I’m just in this fairy tale world out here and not worrying about perfectionism. I do. It’s just that I have found my safe places. And I’m learning in those other places from having that safe place to be imperfect how to be okay when things aren’t perfect elsewhere. I just want to make sure you know I do still battle the perfectionist issue.

Gretchen Roe: 00:36:12.231
I don’t think that’s something that we can ever lay down, but instead of embracing the idea that we have to do it just right. Being able to embrace, “Well, I didn’t do that right, but here’s what I learned from it” is an enormous difference, and I think that makes a lot of difference for parents.

Sue Wachter: 00:36:33.674
I think, too, it’s important to realize that there are times when you’re teaching your children, especially that you are about ready to have a meltdown. And so you need to find a way to vent that. Not just stuff it every time, because there’s times where you’re going to have to say, “Okay, this is not about me at the moment. Got to pull myself together. I have to say the kind, encouraging thing to this child,” which you’re not really feeling that way. And so I know when I’d like to get more back into it again, but just journaling. And then I had my journals that burned. I lit on fire because I would never want them to see those because I needed to have my venting place. And sometimes it was just as simple as spending a few minutes and I would just write the words mad, glad, bad, something like that. And I would just address each of those and try to be honest because it’s even hard to be honest with yourself and write it down. It’s like, “Oh, that’s not good.” But those are real feelings. Frustration is part of it. You don’t want to model that to your kids anyway, that everything just turns out hunky dory no matter what. That isn’t life, but there’s some of the stuff you don’t want to share with them in those moments that you’re really feeling.

Gretchen Roe: 00:38:04.140
Well, toward that end, one of the parents that responded this week with a question said she’s in her second year of homeschooling and she’s wanting and needing help in doing the best for her son because she doesn’t wish to fail him. And I’d like to talk a little bit about that word fail because somewhere along the line, we have– this is the longest journey you’ll ever take before you see the results of your journey.

Sue Wachter: 00:38:32.114
And to be honest, looking back and looking through those papers and having to apologize for my daughter 40 years later, you will fail. You’re not going to get it all right and sometimes it’s okay and sometimes it’s not. Sometimes you have to come back and apologize like I did. I’m not saying you’re off the hook, but remember you’re just a human being loving this child and wanting the best for them and sometimes it gets a little carried away.

Gretchen Roe: 00:39:09.520
Yeah, I think that’s the reason why we need to keep short accounts. We’re going to lose our temper. We’re going to have a day where it doesn’t go the way you want it to. It doesn’t mean you’ve been a failure as a parent. It means that day has been a failure. And to say to your child, “Man, I blew it. I’m really sorry. I lost my temper and that wasn’t fair and will you please forgive me?” Is one of the most powerful things you can possibly model.

Sue Wachter: 00:39:41.270
Oh, my goodness. Yes, if you teach them nothing else. That doesn’t mean you intentionally go out and do something you need to apologize for. Trust me, you’re going to do that on your own. But doing that, realizing that those are, again, opportunities and and maybe you won’t be able to do that the next 24 hours. Maybe you need a month for it to kind of sink in. And again, going back and saying just because it happened a month ago doesn’t mean it’s still not.

Gretchen Roe: 00:40:19.895
Still doesn’t have an effect. Yeah, that’s true.

Sue Wachter: 00:40:22.946
Yeah.

Gretchen Roe: 00:40:25.840
Yeah. I had the opportunity to sit down with one of my young adults over the holidays. And we played this game that’s kind of like a truth or question game. But it’s more about conversation and taking conversation a little bit deeper. And it was a fascinating experience because one of the questions that we had was to identify a time where we both perceived conflict and revisit that from each other’s perspective. And that was really interesting for me because hearing his perspective was so entirely different from my perspective. And at the end, he said, I guess we were both right. And it was quite a conversation. And it was something that happened well over a year ago. So to revisit that conversation and to find profit in that conversation was really tremendous. So if you’re a parent with little kids today and you’re sitting here going, how does this happen when I’ve got kids who are flinging talcum powder all over the house? We want to encourage you to set good habits now. Keep those accounts short because when your kids become teenagers, you’ll need to employ these skills. And we want you to be able to have them in your arsenal.

Sue Wachter: 00:41:48.777
Yeah, for sure.

Gretchen Roe: 00:41:50.505
So we had a couple of parents who asked us questions about, gee, how do I put together a high school transcript? Oh my gosh, I’m recognizing that I’m almost to the end of my child’s high school experiences and I don’t know how to do this, etc., etc., etc. So I’m only making this observation in the fact that we don’t even have to talk about this today. We’ve got a wonderful resource for them. We’ll include that in the show notes. And we’re going to put in the show notes a resource for a webinar that I did last November that I thought was very insightful. My guest was tremendous. She has 35 years of homeschooling experience. And she’s talking about looking at creating a transcript, not just from what you’re planning to do, but what you’ve done. And maybe that’s something we would encourage people as well to think about is look back on what you did August, September, October, November, December, and start picking out what are the things that are memorable to you and to your student. And that might inform how you might be able to change some of the things you’re going to do as you step into this next semester. So we had talked also about– let me see. Let me find this how to be more efficient as we homeschool multiple kids. And one of the things I know that you and I have talked about is to make sure that we’re prepared as far as what we’re doing. So maybe you don’t do seven subjects. Maybe you do three subjects, reading, composition, and math instead of doing all those things. When you’re working with kids who have different needs, you need to have a little bit of time individually with those students. And I would like you to talk a little bit about the tutorial experience you had with the young lady who was just absolutely certain that she had a math disability. And because you weren’t her parent, because you could step in and create an environment where she felt safe to tell you what she didn’t know. I think this is a powerful story. So can we talk again a little bit about that?

Sue Wachter: 00:44:12.768
And so what happened was I was tutoring, and we were working and having fun. And the parent walked in unexpectedly and the student just went into full panic. And the parent just burst into tears like, “Oh my gosh, I’m scaring her.” And that was really a hard moment. But I think it was a good moment because I think we then talked about how, again, she just wants you to be pleased with her because young children, especially, they don’t want to disappoint you. And so again, going back to learning to make mistakes, learning to not be correct, learning to celebrate when they just go for it, and it’s wrong, like, “Oh my gosh, I saw you just went for it. That is so awesome. I love how you just did it. And you’re getting so much closer all the time, and I love it.” And then also modeling, finding ways almost purposely to do something with them that you’re not good at. Again, back to that I don’t know everything. And try to model to them, even if you haven’t done this in the past, say, I want to learn how to make mistakes in front of them and see that as part of the joy of the process. I mean, I’m not saying this is easy, but maybe just be mindful of it, mindful of how badly they want to please you.

Gretchen Roe: 00:45:50.217
I don’t think that even came into conscious thought for me when my kids were growing up. I think I had that I’m a good German. I’m an only child. I had that expectation that they should want to please me. And there’s a balance there that we need to create for our kids. They need to say, “Hey, I’m struggling here.” But by the same token, they need to be able to say, “But I’m going to persevere.” And teaching perseverance might be a greater skill than teaching them the academics we’ve discussed to this point.

Sue Wachter: 00:46:27.293
Right. And going through those notes the other night, that was the thing that I noticed– the notes from teachers and different people in their lives growing up was they kept bringing up integrity and hard work. My kids, nothing was ever easy learning for them. And that was always the– Kyle always works so hard. He has a good attitude about– he’s such a person of integrity, those kind of things. So again, not only me, hopefully I was part of that, but to have the other people in their lives that pull that out too and are good at recognizing. And I’m not sure how you always find them, maybe we just got lucky. But life is a struggle. We’d love it to be just all great, but it’s not. I mean, I still have to talk to myself about that every day.

Gretchen Roe: 00:47:29.252
Right. Well, somewhere along the line, we have mistaken happiness for joy. And they’re not the same things because you can find joy. And if you seek to create that joy in your life, then you’ll find greater happiness, I think. But happiness is fleeting. And I think joy is something that really comes from within. And if we can create that in our children so that they can find the things that are joyful, I remember once, we were having this conversation. This is probably 12, maybe 15, years ago. We were having a conversation about the difference between happiness and joy. And we had spilled an entire gallon of milk on our kitchen floor. And there was no joy in Mudville. I will say that I had just mopped that kitchen floor the day before, and I was not happy that there was an entire gallon of milk there. And I remember my youngest daughter– she was maybe seven or eight years old. And she said, “Oh, happiness and joy, I understand the difference. The joy is watching the puppies lick up the milk. Happiness is when it’s all licked up.” [laughter] It was like, okay, all right. The joy is watching the puppies lick the milk up. The happiness comes when the milk is all licked up, so.

Sue Wachter: 00:48:57.471
Yeah, I can visualize those dogs going nuts.

Gretchen Roe: 00:48:58.254
That’s something we can just think about a little bit with our kids.

Sue Wachter: 00:49:01.036
Yeah. That’s cool. And I just want to make sure people understand. We’re not saying this is easy. Just be joyful. Just journal, burn your journal. I mean, I hope that there’s just some little, again, one takeaway to say, “Oh, I caught that. That’s what I want. I want a piece of that.”

Gretchen Roe: 00:49:29.880
So let’s get a little practical here in the last 10 minutes or so. One of the things that you can do as you relaunch the ship is take a little bit of time and plan some meals ahead of time. Nobody’s happy when people are hungry. So if you take a Saturday morning and you make a big pot of spaghetti and you put some away so that one day, when you’ve had a long academic day, you can pull that spaghetti sauce out of the freezer and just throw some pasta in a pot, that’s going to make for a better experience than it’s 5 o’clock, nobody’s been fed. Everybody’s hungry and nothing’s defrosted. And that comes back to the second point that we had on our list, Sue, about being intentional and planning ahead because kids don’t wait. Adults don’t wait when they’re hungry, so being able to do that. The other thing we’d like to encourage you in our conversations that Sue and I had ahead of time was to recognize that one of the most vital tools you have in the long winter months is going outside for even 10 minutes. And Sue, I know you do this very intentionally with your grandchildren. I wondered if you could talk about how do you turn a 10-minute walk into an adventure?

Sue Wachter: 00:50:50.939
Oh, well, I always do adventure. But again, it goes back to looking beyond the obvious. That’s kind of my main mantra that keeps my sanity is if you just take a little zone out and look beyond the obvious. I don’t know. We have a lot of trees here, so I’m always looking for faces in trees. I’m always looking for– especially in the winter. Last winter, I had such a wonderful– I went to the park by myself. I mean, I’m the weird old lady that’s out there doing– like, what is she doing? And so look close at those branches on those trees that are going to have leaves on them. The buds are already there. You think it looks like it all looks dead. I mean, that’s the kind of stuff I can get excited about. So I do that in front of my children. I also have the Merlin app. So if I say, “I hear birds,” I turn on my app. Oh, it’s a whatever. Oh my gosh, there’s five birds here somewhere. I mean, so I’m a little bit of that crazy lady, and my kids kind of know to expect it. You never know what she’s going to do or come up with.

Gretchen Roe: 00:52:01.227
That’s a good suggestion. I have Merlin as well. And we’ll put that in the show notes for parents because I think that’s a wonderful way to bring science into a walk. The other one that I have is National Geographic. It’s called Seek. And it allows you to identify plants and animals and things like that. And those are terrific ways to take your educational journey out and onto the sidewalk and still have a profitable time with that.

Sue Wachter: 00:52:30.143
And my all time favorite is the John Muir Laws journal, nature journaling. And that he has lessons, lesson plans, and he has videos and he has everything there, almost too much there to get into the nature journaling and really looking beyond the obvious. And he’s all about wonder. That’s what I learned most from him is wonder like, “Oh, look at that. I wonder.” I mean just even trees when you see the branches not being perfect, I go, “I wonder. There’s been storms involved.” I mean, anyway, I could spend a whole hour just on that. But just learning to take a breath and see the beauty of life around you, just even for a couple minutes. And it’s okay if it’s like [inaudible] goes again. Trust me, you are making a difference with that behavior that they are learning from you [crosstalk].

Gretchen Roe: 00:53:31.159
So what would be your closing thoughts in the last couple of minutes here, the thing that you want–? and I know you’ve said this a couple of times, but if you want a parent to think of this hour that they’ve spent as far as time, what’s the one thing that they could do in 2024 that’s different that would make a difference for their students?

Sue Wachter: 00:53:54.612
I just think in the midst of all the stuff you have to do, just find a way to all of you treasure moments. It doesn’t seem like it matters now, but it it really, really, really does. And then also I just want to make sure– I have never in 30 years talked to a homeschool mom that I don’t hang up the phone and not believe in you. I believe in you. I believe you can do this. And especially if you’re using our products, you call us if you need us. We will talk you off the ledge as needed and we we love that. We don’t love that you’re on the ledge, but we love that we can be here for you and we’re allowed to. I mean we’re not like– the boss isn’t saying, “Okay, get off the phone.” No. If we have to have a half an hour talk where you can do that venting that you’d like to do to your kids, we’re here for you. And that’s the most important thing. I want to make sure that’s who we are as a company.

Gretchen Roe: 00:55:02.187
I love that. Those are tremendous words of wisdom. And it’s been my pleasure to spend this hour with Sue. I always learn so much from her. And just learning to be able to be okay with making mistakes in front of my kids. Man, I wish Sue had been around 20 years ago. It would have been so much easier in my homeschooling journey if I thought that that was a cool thing to be able to do. I want to thank you all for joining us today. This is Gretchen Roe for The Demme Learning Show. You can find the show notes or watch a recording at demmelearning.com/show, or you can find them on our YouTube channel. And of course, you can find the Demme Learning podcast anywhere you enjoy listening to podcasts. We’d love to accompany you on your learning journeys. And we thank you for spending this time with us today. Be sure to rate, review, follow, or subscribe wherever you may be hearing this. And thanks so much for trusting us with an hour of your time today. Take care, everyone. Have a wonderful week.

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